TAKOBOTO

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〜にしても
nishitemo
JLPT N2
Edit  dc
Meaning
even for
even for japanese keigo is difficult
Edit  dc
Formation
See also
Phrases
たとえじょうだんにしても、それはしつれいだ。
Even as a joke, that's an insult.
Edit  #6354 rubyhatchet
こくみんにしてもかんがえはおなじです。
Even for the people, the way of thinking is the same.
Edit  #1089 dc
このかんじはむずかしい。おとなにしてもよみにくい。
This kanji is difficult. Even for adults, its difficult to read.
Edit  #1264 dc, Miki
にほんじんにしてもけいごはむずかしい。
Even for japanese, honorific terms are difficult.
Edit  #1274 dc
それにしてもさいきんうばかり。
anyway its been nothing but rain recently.
Edit  #1276 dc
こうつうじゅうたいにしてもおそくちゃいけない
even despite the traffic, you must not be late
Edit  #4867 dc
にほんのなつはいつもむしあついですよ。それにしてもことしはずいぶんむしあついですね。
The Japanese summer is always muggy. Even so this year is very muggy.
Edit  #6355 kadoka66
ふゆにしてはけっこうあついよね。
For winter its quite warm isn't it.
Edit  #6356 kadoka66
あなたどうはぜんぜんわからないな。タクシードライバーのくせに!
For a taxi driver you are pretty bad with directions.
Edit  #6357 kadoka66
グループ・ポリシーのせっていをむこうにしてもせっていないようがもとにもどらない。
By invalidating the group policy setting, the [rest of] the settings will not return to their original state.
Edit  #286 Amatuka, bamboo4
Discussion and comments
*Similar grammar constructions include; 〜も, 〜にとっても, 〜の立場でも, 〜から見ても.

FORMATION:
N + にしても
rubyhatchet
I think this grammar IS THE SAME as the entry (is related to):
ni shiro; nise(mo)yo; ni shitemo

We should unify both entries into a single one.
leonardo.stylish
maybe this is usually used as the second clause to emphasize? See if my third example above makes sense

 として = for
にしても = even for
dc
As for the first example, I agree with bamboo4.
As for the 3rd and 4th examples, they can be reaplced by にさへ or にとっても.
Miki
〜にしても can be reaplced by = (例えtatoe)〜としても → even if
Miki
警護(guarding) should be replaced with 敬語(honoriffics) in the fourth example. In addition to Example 1, it is more natural to use としても in Examples 3 and 4.
bamboo4
hmm, so we don't have a good example for nishitemo ?
maybe i am getting confused with [nishiteha]
dc
can someone check my trans of
それ にしても 最近雨ばかり
dc
'それにしても'is used to (1) to change the topic, (2) even so.
The example 5 is (1). so E-trans should be changed to
Miki
Anyway,its been nothing but rain recently.
Miki
It might be more suitable to use であっても or colloqual だって for Examples 1, 3 and 4 にしても in Examople 2 can be a different animal.
bamboo4
Examples 3 and 4 can be simplified to でも. If you have でも already, they should go there. As for それにしても 最近雨ばかり, I don't have any problem.
bamboo4
I think 'にしても' is more like "even with" "even for"
Amatuka
The [demo] we have means "but".
日本人 でも 敬語は難しい
= japanese -but- keigo is tough ??

or can demo also mean "even for" ?
dc
This でも means 'even for" and different from but=でも.
Miki
Miki-san is correct. Since 敬語 is the primary topic, the word order would normally be 敬語は日本人でも難しい. Yu can also say, cnversationally, 敬語となると日本人だって難しい.
bamboo4
The first example is bad because we normally use としても. The second example, in the sense of "if we were to make..." is okay but the meaning of this sentence is not at all clear.
bamboo4
wow quobobo your one smart cookie;)
kai
OK interesting. Maybe that is the "ni shite mo" that I hear most often - basically "even if you do X"...
But this is very similar to "even for..." - so is this grammar block related to or evolved from "X ni shite mo"?
dc
same as ~に(も)せよ and ~にしろ
also in constructs like ~にしろ~にしろ in the meaning of ~でも~でも
halx
I think the "無効にしても” example is different from the rest. In it, nishitemo is simply a conjugation of mukounisuru, which means "to make inactive / to disable". In this case it's changing the meaning to "even if you disable it". Since you can do this for any verb (te form plus mo), isn't this different than the other ones?
Quobobo
You are absolutely correct, Quobobo!
bamboo4
ex#286 is the transformation of 無効にする, isn't it? I think this is not included to this にしても.
Miki
ex #4867 does not make sense either in Japanese in English translation.
bamboo4
You're quite right, it ought to be something more like "Nevermind those traffic jams, you mustn't be late", don't you think?
zio
zio - feel free to edit...
dc
Correct me if I am wrong and I think I am reitterating some things in other people's comments, but isn't にしても simply the same as にしては except that the former shows more surprise at something being contrary to ones expectation.

See these examples.

日本人にしては背が高い。 It may be that we naturally assume a Japanese person to be shorter than say someone from America so when they are taller it is a surprise.

日本人にしても背が低いね。

Even if the stereotype is for a Japanese person to be shorter this person is exceptionally so.

English = Even for a Japanese person he/she is short.

(No offense intended here. It just seemed like a perfect example to stress my point) As a matter of fact I know several 6 foot Japanese guys and a 5 foot Japanese girl disproving any idea that Japanese people are short.

Anyway I added a better example above.
kadoka66
I looked in the PDF of Meguro Language Center for JPLT2 (http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/DownloadF/2-all.pdf) and I found some "にしては" but no "にしても" in the list of grammar points appearing in past test.
I looked in the site http://www.japonin.com/intermediate-grammar-list.php and there is a reference to "にしては" but for "にしても" no reference too.
Are you sure this is useful for level 2 of JPLT?
赤毛