TAKOBOTO

when you talk of, speaking of, when you say
talking of the french...

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スイスというとなにをイメージしますか？

When you hear 'Switzerland' what does it invoke in your mind?

なぜクビにならなかったかというとかれにはちょうのうりょくがあり、かれのよちでかずかずのなんじけんがかいけつをみたからだ

To say (the reason) why he wasn't fired, having psychic powers, he solved many difficult cases with his foresight.

なにかというとあいつはいつもくちをだそうとする。

Whatever happens, that guy always tries to interject himself.

なぜかといわれても、しりません

If you ask me why, I don't know.

This is the best way I can interpret this example. It seems like a good one of toiuto, but maybe someone else can be more precise in its translation

bi-ru

it looks like miki edited the example... in which case maybe we should turn it green rather than red = "edited"

dc

Keep it in red for a while.

bamboo4

added the rest of the sentence to put it in a whole context

bi-ru

I just added 「･･･。」 as the J-sentence seemed to be unfinished. ばればれですね。:P Now it looks perfect.

Miki

I don't see a 「･･･。」 ? ex# 3109?

dc

Yes it's ex# 3109. I added「･･･。」before bi-ru added the rest of the sentence which you can read now.

Miki

Is that actually how you spell Switzerland I wonder? ^^v

Amatuka

What is the difference with と言ったら？

dc

I think と言ったら is almost the same as と言うと but makes a sentence more casual and colloquial.
ex#3115 というと is different from others. 何か というと should be used a set. 何か_と_いったら means different.
何かといったら、犬に決まっているじゃないか。

Miki

I don't really know what the meanings for both 何か というとnor the meaning for 何か_と_いったら. However, I think there's a slight difference between toiuto and toittara. Both means about "speaking of..." but the former is just stating something in a neutral sense, whereas the latter one is stating something more of surprise, or beauty.

So I think it's more common to say this "沖縄といったら、文字でかけないほど美しい浜辺や海がたくさんあるようだね" with toittara than with toiuto. I found this in the Kanzen Masuta textbook for level 2 grammar.

nhk9

といったら is used when making a conclusive or definitive statement, allowing nothing else, whereas というと is more generic and allows many alternatives.
Compare 日本の山といったら富士山だ(when you say which is THE mountain in Japan, it would have to be Mt. Fuji) with the example #378 above.

bamboo4

I've heard "何故と言ったら" before in a few lectures. The speaker used "なぜと言ったら..." to push the lecture in a further direction, (seeing as there was no audience participation to tell him to keep going), to keep it flowing. Almost as if to say " "Why?" you may ask; well, blah blah blah."

LittleFish

nhk9 is absolutely correct. かといったら contains within it a feeling, emotion, or surprise, while かというと does not. Straight from the ALC literature for ２級.

KyleGoetz

ex #5945: 「なぜかというと,しりません」is sort of weird. I think it should be 「何故かといわれても、知りません or 判りません」.

bamboo4

Recommend chamging #5945 to that effect.

bamboo4

the rule for とconditional and たら conditional is exactly the same is it not. You can not use と for feelings, request sentences or to want something. ばconditional is the same I think.

so 家に帰ると、電話して下さい。is wrong

家に帰ったら、電話して下さい。

kadoka66

If you ae not going to change it, delete #5945.

bamboo4

it looks like 5945 has been changed - but please feel free to edit the examples, wikipedia style.

dc

I was just wondering if this と言うと　isn`t really a single grammar point. と言う is often used to give an explanation of something. It basicly means "to say"

IE　何と言う学校で勉強しますか？
　What is the school you study at called?

With that as it is. the final と before the rest of the sentence is the sentence connective causative と that implies "because of S1, Naturally S2 came to be"

so Ex 378 is really
When (Someone `omitted は`) says "Switzerland", what image do you see (Naturally without the ablity to control it `と`)


Ex 3109 can be broken down to a rhetorical Question followed by the (natural and unchangable) answer.

Ex 3115 isn`t a very good translation. "sorry bamboo"

何か　means something so 何かと言う means to say something so a better translation would be

when ever (anyone `omitted は`) says something, ( it is naturally unavoidable that `と`) that guy will open ( let it appear `出る`) his mouth.

tigert